While at least a decent portion of America screamed and cheered when Barry Bonds was indicted, there wasn't rejoicing from all corners of this country. Take Charles Barkley, for instance. In the above interview with Bob Ley, he comes off more than a little upset. All and all, he raises many an excellent point. Why after four years have they come to this conclusion? Four years, really? Also, he states that though race wasn't the entire motivating factor here, it at least had something to do with it.
But Charles, let's face it. Barry Bonds took steroids. And no amount of you screaming witch hunt is going to change that.
PostmanR - it's not about taking steroids. It's about lying to the Grand Jury. Bonds won't be convicted of steroids. And he very well might be acquitted, which really would compound the prevailing understanding of the situation.
Please Mr. Postman, tell me what "excellent points" Charles Barkley raised, because all I heard was the same, tired excuses.
Had the indictment come down sooner, I'm sure Barkley would have claimed that it was done to keep Bonds from breaking the record. Had Greg Anderson not kept silent, the matter undoubtedly would have been resolved much sooner as well. And it sure doesn't take much imagination to figure out why Mr. Anderson kept quiet.
The actions against Bonds are not because he took steroids, but because he "allegedly" lied under oath and obstructed the government investigation of BALCO. Mark McGwire never lied under oath. The Grand Jury was investigating BALCO and, as Mark McGwire had nothing to do with BALCO, he was not called as a witness. Thus, comparing Bonds to McGwire is comparing apples and oranges.
Moreover, the public has not treated McGwire with any favoritism since his testimony before Congress. He's the only person to hit 500 or more home runs and not make the Hall of Fame.
The principals of BALCO were white and it was their operation, and not the athletes they "served", which was the focus of the federal investigation. The athletes who testified were given immunity PROVIDED they told the truth. The BALCO principals were sentenced and served their time.
Finally, Troy Ellerman, a white guy, is now serving 2 1/2 years in federal prison for leaking the Grand Jury transcripts. I doubt he feels that he is getting any favorable treatment because of the color of his skin.
So please, lets punish those who break the law and not try to protect someone just because of the color of his skin.
I have not read Sir Charles Barkley, so I cannot determine if he said Race was the only issue. Generally, I trust him. Therefore, if he said race was a factor, he will likley be correct. Although, I am not an African American, I do respect and admire many. Hopefully, they can see see all Caucations are not alike.
I'm saddened for Bonds, but not for Baseball. I don't know Barry Bonds personally, but he has been fairly straitforward in addressing the media and the public. I think was paid less than other players would be for his contribution to the Giants (Check the Atlanta payroll of some players & compare). He has always wanted to be the best baseball player ever, and use his Dad, and other great Giant Players as mentors. As a Dodger fan for life (bleed Blue but love the Angels too), I've allways respeted the Giants and the US respected formidable countries like Russia. They make you strive harder to be better. The use of steroids by some players, not only raised the ratings of Baseball (McGuire-Sosa), it also raised the saleries in Baseball. Barry Bonds did not take steroids (as alleged), until after he saw other users HR stats go beyond reality. He than gave in, to have an equal opportunity -- at the HR record. Equal Opportunity means something different to African-Americans than what I meant here. I know Barry Bonds would have the most Home Runs, in modern day basebass (* applies to all Baseball records since 1980 since the gap between users of performance enhacing drugs, and those who have not been detected is wider than "non=users" or fans will ever ever know. Some people think Barry Bonds cheated (I will not comment here on that), but he was cheated more. How, his average base hit is a Double, Triple, or Home Run. Every time a opposing Manager had their pitcher Intentionally Walk Barry Bonds they cheated him out of an at bad. He would be cheated out of 2-4 bases, and possible 1-4 RBIs, and 1 run. Only after he had been cheated out of probably several hundred at bats, he succumbed to performance enhancing drugs (as accussed). Had Barry Bonds played in the days of Koufax, Drysdale, Bunning, or Gibson, he would not have been walked very often. The pitchers in the old days were not afraid of anybody. I'm not saying Barry Bonds would have been able to always be successful against those pitchers, but at least he would have got a chance to bat. I am frustrated by the use of performance enhancing drugs, but I understand the pressure athletes face. This doesn't mean that I approve of it. I believe in the integrity of the sports, but cheating a great baseball player out of their at bats, may not be any more noble than a player trying to do more with the fewer at bats that they have left.
Well, Postman. I've always considered it ironic that Mark Fainaru-Wada's last name includes the acronym for the World Anti-Doping Agency, but correct me if I'm wrong that Major League Baseball doesn't comply with the World Anti-Doping code called the "Non-Analytical Positive," which was the dubious, nay, Orwellian standard used to find at least 14 track and field athletes guilty of doping without a positive test, upon which they all received 2 to 8-yr bans. And they weren't "given immunity provided they told the truth" and only 2 of the 14 were white, the shot putter and the hammer thrower. Postman, correct me if I'm wrong, but none of those who didn't admit to it were prosecuted for "lying," they just took their suspensions, ending their careers.
Postman, didn't the "principals at BALCO who [were] white" in the words of our friend, receive wrist-slaps by comparison? Valente and Korchemmy were sentenced to probation only. Patrick Arnold, the chemist who created The Clear received 3 months in jail and 3 months home confinement. Conte and Greg Anderson each received 4 months in jail and 4 months home confinement.
McGwire only missed the Hall of Fame on his *first ballot* and he did testify under oath. He was even asked by the senator if he was pleading the Fifth, but they didn't make a federal case out of it and nobody prosecuted Rafael Palmeiro when he tested positive for stanozolol a few months after wagging his finger in Congress and denying that he ever took anything. He received only a 10-day suspension while continuing to deny using steroids.
Marion Jones and Barry Bonds have always been the big fish in this investigation. Our friend should read the book.
Again, tell me if I'm wrong, but the government wasn't interested in prosecuting any of the track athletes who didn't confess, with the exception of Jones and possibly Tim Montgomery. I assume that the reason they didn't charge the others with perjury was because: a) they were not well-known and therefore their "downfall" would not serve any deterrent purpose, and b) their punishment was their suspension, which was meted out by their own sport.
The baseball players, on the other hand, have always been coddled by management and ownership when it comes to doping, which the late Ken Caminiti estimated half of baseball was doing.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
11-17-2007 @ 1:57PM
stanfordfan said...
PostmanR - it's not about taking steroids. It's about lying to the Grand Jury. Bonds won't be convicted of steroids. And he very well might be acquitted, which really would compound the prevailing understanding of the situation.
Reply
11-17-2007 @ 2:43PM
Martin said...
Please Mr. Postman, tell me what "excellent points" Charles Barkley raised, because all I heard was the same, tired excuses.
Had the indictment come down sooner, I'm sure Barkley would have claimed that it was done to keep Bonds from breaking the record. Had Greg Anderson not kept silent, the matter undoubtedly would have been resolved much sooner as well. And it sure doesn't take much imagination to figure out why Mr. Anderson kept quiet.
The actions against Bonds are not because he took steroids, but because he "allegedly" lied under oath and obstructed the government investigation of BALCO. Mark McGwire never lied under oath. The Grand Jury was investigating BALCO and, as Mark McGwire had nothing to do with BALCO, he was not called as a witness. Thus, comparing Bonds to McGwire is comparing apples and oranges.
Moreover, the public has not treated McGwire with any favoritism since his testimony before Congress. He's the only person to hit 500 or more home runs and not make the Hall of Fame.
The principals of BALCO were white and it was their operation, and not the athletes they "served", which was the focus of the federal investigation. The athletes who testified were given immunity PROVIDED they told the truth. The BALCO principals were sentenced and served their time.
Finally, Troy Ellerman, a white guy, is now serving 2 1/2 years in federal prison for leaking the Grand Jury transcripts. I doubt he feels that he is getting any favorable treatment because of the color of his skin.
So please, lets punish those who break the law and not try to protect someone just because of the color of his skin.
Reply
11-17-2007 @ 3:14PM
Gary said...
I have not read Sir Charles Barkley, so I cannot determine if he said Race was the only issue. Generally, I trust him. Therefore, if he said race was a factor, he will likley be correct. Although, I am not an African American, I do respect and admire many. Hopefully, they can see see all Caucations are not alike.
I'm saddened for Bonds, but not for Baseball. I don't know Barry Bonds personally, but he has been fairly straitforward in addressing the media and the public. I think was paid less than other players would be for his contribution to the Giants (Check the Atlanta payroll of some players & compare). He has always wanted to be the best baseball player ever, and use his Dad, and other great Giant Players as mentors. As a Dodger fan for life (bleed Blue but love the Angels too), I've allways respeted the Giants and the US respected formidable countries like Russia. They make you strive harder to be better. The use of steroids by some players, not only raised the ratings of Baseball (McGuire-Sosa), it also raised the saleries in Baseball. Barry Bonds did not take steroids (as alleged), until after he saw other users HR stats go beyond reality. He than gave in, to have an equal opportunity -- at the HR record. Equal Opportunity means something different to African-Americans than what I meant here. I know Barry Bonds would have the most Home Runs, in modern day basebass (* applies to all Baseball records since 1980 since the gap between users of performance enhacing drugs, and those who have not been detected is wider than "non=users" or fans will ever ever know. Some people think Barry Bonds cheated (I will not comment here on that), but he was cheated more. How, his average base hit is a Double, Triple, or Home Run. Every time a opposing Manager had their pitcher Intentionally Walk Barry Bonds they cheated him out of an at bad. He would be cheated out of 2-4 bases, and possible 1-4 RBIs, and 1 run. Only after he had been cheated out of probably several hundred at bats, he succumbed to performance enhancing drugs (as accussed). Had Barry Bonds played in the days of Koufax, Drysdale, Bunning, or Gibson, he would not have been walked very often. The pitchers in the old days were not afraid of anybody. I'm not saying Barry Bonds would have been able to always be successful against those pitchers, but at least he would have got a chance to bat. I am frustrated by the use of performance enhancing drugs, but I understand the pressure athletes face. This doesn't mean that I approve of it. I believe in the integrity of the sports, but cheating a great baseball player out of their at bats, may not be any more noble than a player trying to do more with the fewer at bats that they have left.
Reply
11-19-2007 @ 12:03AM
PostmanX-13D said...
Well, Postman. I've always considered it ironic that Mark Fainaru-Wada's last name includes the acronym for the World Anti-Doping Agency, but correct me if I'm wrong that Major League Baseball doesn't comply with the World Anti-Doping code called the "Non-Analytical Positive," which was the dubious, nay, Orwellian standard used to find at least 14 track and field athletes guilty of doping without a positive test, upon which they all received 2 to 8-yr bans. And they weren't "given immunity provided they told the truth" and only 2 of the 14 were white, the shot putter and the hammer thrower. Postman, correct me if I'm wrong, but none of those who didn't admit to it were prosecuted for "lying," they just took their suspensions, ending their careers.
Postman, didn't the "principals at BALCO who [were] white" in the words of our friend, receive wrist-slaps by comparison? Valente and Korchemmy were sentenced to probation only. Patrick Arnold, the chemist who created The Clear received 3 months in jail and 3 months home confinement. Conte and Greg Anderson each received 4 months in jail and 4 months home confinement.
McGwire only missed the Hall of Fame on his *first ballot* and he did testify under oath. He was even asked by the senator if he was pleading the Fifth, but they didn't make a federal case out of it and nobody prosecuted Rafael Palmeiro when he tested positive for stanozolol a few months after wagging his finger in Congress and denying that he ever took anything. He received only a 10-day suspension while continuing to deny using steroids.
Marion Jones and Barry Bonds have always been the big fish in this investigation. Our friend should read the book.
Reply
11-19-2007 @ 12:15AM
PostmanX-13D said...
Again, tell me if I'm wrong, but the government wasn't interested in prosecuting any of the track athletes who didn't confess, with the exception of Jones and possibly Tim Montgomery. I assume that the reason they didn't charge the others with perjury was because: a) they were not well-known and therefore their "downfall" would not serve any deterrent purpose, and b) their punishment was their suspension, which was meted out by their own sport.
The baseball players, on the other hand, have always been coddled by management and ownership when it comes to doping, which the late Ken Caminiti estimated half of baseball was doing.
Reply