The Mariners, to their credit, recently sent out a document to potential Hall of Fame voters setting forth the case for Edgar Martinez. With this year's Hall ballot coming out Friday and Martinez on it for the first time, it will also be my first time examining his candidacy.
I don't know anyone in the Baseball Writers' Association of America that has a Hall of Fame vote and doesn't agonize over it -- pore over the numbers, consult with other writers or baseball people, makes lists and charts -- before casting his ballot. People who criticize the results should know this; those of us who vote understand the implications of our vote and take it very seriously.
Martinez's case is an interesting one. There's no doubt he was one of the best hitters of his time. But he has two major strikes against him:
• He was mostly a designated hitter. Martinez played 1,403 games as a DH -- third-most behind Harold Baines and Hal McRae. Most DH games by a Hall of Fame player: 1,173, by Paul Molitor. Next-most: 630, by Reggie Jackson.
While Molitor started 1,483 games in the field, Martinez started just 564.
• Martinez didn't have a long career, by Hall of Fame standards. He didn't become a regular until 1990, when he was 27 (and maybe that's the Mariners' fault for not playing him earlier, but it still is fact).
He played in 2,055 games, 189th all-time according to baseball-reference.com. And he had 8,672 plate appearances, which is 165th all time.
Back to the pros, as provided to us by the Mariners. (We'll hit just some of the seven pages of info.)
• Martinez is one of 20 players in major league history to have a lifetime batting average better than .300, a lifetime on-base percentage better than .400 and a lifetime slugging percentage better than .500. Of the 12 players on the list to be eligible for the Hall of Fame, 11 are in (all but Lefty O'Doul, 1919-1934).
• Martinez is one of eight players to have 300 homers, 500 doubles, 1,000 walks, a .300 career average and a .400 career on-base percentage. The other seven includes five Hall of Famers -- Stan Musial, Rogers Hornsby, Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Ted Williams -- and two active players (Manny Ramirez and Todd Helton).
• With a .933 career OPS, Martinez ranks 32nd all-time (baseball-reference.com lists him tied with Albert Belle 34th since it includes Dan Brouthers from the 19th century). Martinez's OPS+ -- OPS adjusted for era and ballpark -- is 147, tied for 39th all-time.
• Over a seven-season period from 1995 to 2001, Martinez hit .329 with a .446 on-base percentage, .574 slugging percentage and 291 doubles. The only players with similar seven-year stretches (.325 average, .440 OBP, .570 SLG, 250 2B) are Lou Gehrig, Ted Williams and Todd Helton.
• Martinez is also 41st all-time with 514 doubles and is one of 28 300-homer men with more walks than strikeouts.
All good stuff from the Mariners' baseball information department.
But here's how I try to decide who should be in the Hall of Fame: Was he a dominant player at his position over a significant stretch?
Thus: Dale Murphy was dominant, but only for a few years. And Rusty Staub played in 2,951 games, but was never dominant.
Roberto Alomar will be on the ballot this year as well, and while his offense is strong on its own, when we consider he played second base -- and played it perhaps as well as anyone ever has -- he's an easy pick.
(By the way, a partial list of players first eligible for consideration by the BBWAA this year: Kevin Appier, Andy Ashby, Dave Burba, Ellis Burks, Andres Galarraga, Pat Hentgen, Mike Jackson, Eric Karros, Ray Lankford, Barry Larkin, Fred McGriff, Mark McLemore, Shane Reynolds, David Segui, Robin Ventura, Fernando Vina and Todd Zeile.)
Back to Edgar. Let's consider his best 10-year span, from 1992 to 2001.
Martinez had the sixth-best OPS over that decade, ahead of Jeff Bagwell, Ken Griffey Jr. and Gary Sheffield. Martinez was third in on-base percentage but 14th in slugging.
He was also 16th in both RBI and runs scored, because he was 31st in plate appearances and 39th in games played (he missed most of the 1993 season).
Other indicators that carry weight -- that tell us how great a player was considered in his era -- are All-Star appearances and MVP voting. And while Martinez made seven All-Star Games (not bad, but Alomar, for example, made 12), he was top five in MVP voting just once and top-10 just twice (third in 1995 and sixth in 2000).
Something else I wanted to check: Considering Martinez played much of his career in the Kingdome, was his offense helped by his home park? Well, he had a career .940 OPS at home and .926 on the road. His batting average was .311 at home and .312 on the road. His slugging percentage was .517 at home and .514 on the road.Not much of a factor there, in my view.
Then there's the steroids factor. No one has ever, to my knowledge, suspected Martinez of using performance-enhancing drugs, but there was plenty of it around the game during his prime. So do we weigh his performance for that?
I don't see how. Unfortunately. Because I'm a hard-liner on the steroids issue when it comes to the Hall of Fame, based on the "integrity, sportsmanship, character" that we are instructed to consider. (That's a column for another time.)
So here's my current (but not final) conclusion. Martinez just wasn't dominant enough on offense in his time to be a Hall of Famer, and since he didn't play much defense, he needed to have a convincing offensive case.
And I reserve the right to change my vote. Perhaps by this year's deadline, perhaps in future years.
Thanks to the Mariners for sending out the fact sheet. But they should be patient.
The Red Sox did the same for a long time in support of Jim Rice. And Rice got in last year -- in his last chance to be voted in by the BBWAA.
Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Sportswriters are idiots and should not be allowed to vote for Hall of Fame, better to let past players and managers make those decisions. This write has a problem with steroid related issues. I wonder how many sportswriters who have HOF votes are drug users or drunks, I would bet a greater percentage than among the atheletes themselves, after all aren't soprtswriters just disappoited athletes themselves who just didn't have the talent to play the game at a high level. It time to move on and it is definitely time for our moronic sportswriters to elect a player such as Mark McGwire to the hall. Then there are several more to follow, unless of course we hold sportswriters to a code of conduct...I know, what a joke..........
Well if the bar is kept very high for HOF admission, defintely he is a no. Was a very good player though with many of those great moments coming against my favorite team (Yanks.)
There are a lot of players though who have very good careers and are not in the HOF. Couple of Yanks that come to mind are Don Mattingly and Bernie Williams. Both very good players but if you are going to reserve the Hall for all time greats, they are a notch below as is Edgar.
The guy was a partime player, he could hit but his fielding sucked.
To me the ultimate decision should be made by the players already enshrined. They are the most ones most suited to decide who should, or should not, be their peer.
Edgar Martinez was a DH who barely got to 2,000 hits. Alan Trammel had better stats than Martinez and played a key position very well for a long time. He doesn't belong. Edgar Martinez? Not even close.
How are Alan Trammell's career .282 BA, .355 OBP, and 185 HR stats better than Edgar's .312/.418/309HR? The only thing Trammell did better with the bat was play a little longer and amass an extra season's worth of hits on top of what Edgar Martinez had.
I'd say those two are about even because, as you said, Trammell was actually good in a tough position
Here's a challenge Mr. Price: Consider former Pirate Al Oliver and Dodgers' Gil Hodges stats and fielding and all that other stat mumbo jumbo bull and then tell me how many guys you voted (and are in) for that didn't come near their numbers or performance, playing on a team with Roberto Clemente, Willie Stargell and Dave Parker.(To say nothing of the guys Hodges played with--including HOFers Snider, Campanella, Reese, and Robinson.) They were two of the dominant 1st basemen of their eras and for a long span. Then tell me how they are NOT in and Monte Irvin, a non-dominant, 10-year player, for example, is????
Edgar was a good hitter but not a 5 tooler or HOF caliber. No way Jose should he be in the HOF when a player like the Hawk, Andre Dawson, isn't in. To digress, let's give the all time hit man his due and put him in the HOF. Pete deserves it. And while I'm at it, I hope not 1 steroid cheater ever gets in: Clemens, Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, etc. They made a mockery of the record books and couldn't have done this naturally, just with their talents.
Edgar was a good hitter but not a 5 tooler or HOF caliber. No way Jose should he be in the HOF when a player like the Hawk, Andre Dawson, isn't in. To digress, let's give the all time hit man his due and put him in the HOF. Pete deserves it. And while I'm at it, I hope not 1 steroid cheater ever gets in: Clemens, Bonds, McGwire, Sosa, etc. They made a mockery of the record books and couldn't have done this naturally, just with talent.
If I'm a manager I'd MUCH rather have Martinez in my lineup than Dawson. His career OBP is almost 100 points higher! Not to mention much better BA and equal power numbers
"But here's how I try to decide who should be in the Hall of Fame: Was he a dominant player at his position over a significant stretch?"
Edgar was the best DH in baseball over a stretch of 7-8 years. That's dominance.
He didn't play defense? Neither does Derek Jeter, that won't hinder his HOF chances.
He didn't play until he was 27? Blame Woody Woodward. Don't worry about being harsh, he's used to it.
In an age of home runs (read home runs, think steroids), he was a dominant offensive player that relied on doubles for his slugging numbers. It's impossible to prove that he didn't use steroids, but looking at his numbers, there is no spike from 25-30 home runs to 60-70.
The DH award is named after him. That would be like excluding Cy Young from the HOF ... ok, maybe not exactly like it, but you get the point.
Not only was he a 7-time All-star, 5-time Silver Slugger winner, he was also a humanitarian as seen by his Roberto Clemente award.
The man deserves to be in the hall of fame.
You are entitled to your opinion.
However, your crediblity took a major hit when you implied that Jeter doesn't play defense.
How many Yankee games have you personally watched, besides when they play the Mariners?
Jeter was recognized for having one of his best fielding years by winning the GOLD GLOVE.
He makes plays that more accomplished fielders will never make. His field presence and experience along with his baseball intelligence makesup for what is wrongly perceived as limited range.
The single most overlooked player that hasn't received Hall of fame recognition is
ROGER MARIS.
He was an oustanding right fielder with a cannon arm.He always hit the cutoff man. threw to the right base, made all the routine plays and most of the difficult plays and few runners tried to take the extra base on him.
Besides hitting home runs, he was a clutch hitter with a high battin average, a excellent baserunner, a team player,and was a winner.
He was a premier player in the early sixties.
Edgar was good but Maris was a much better all around player.
Nobody hates the yankee's more than I do. but to say that Jeeter doesn't play defence, is a load of fertilizer. Like I said , I hate the yankees but not to the point ofdenegrating a great player. GO RED SOX!
I don't understand the problem with sportswriters and the DH.
The fact is that its a part of the game , it doesn't matter if you like it or not. It you had a great career as a DH then you should be voted into the HOF.
Lets be reasonable. How many pitchers are in the HOF that weren't good fielders? How many games do pitchers play? A lot less then DH's .
American league pitchers don't bat, they don't run the bases , they are not used for replacement fielders. Yet I never hear the sportwriters say; Well he only pitches so I have a problem voting for him.
How important is fielding anyways? Don Mattingly won 9 straight gold gloves and his career stats are almost identical to Kirby Puckett's. Kirby Puckett got into the HOF on the his first ballet and Mattingly can't come close to getting enought vote for the HOF.
Get real , until there isn't a DH they should be giving the same consideration as any other player.
I don't have a problem with the DH and the HOF , I have a problem with the Sportswriters voting in the players.
Edgar clearly deserves a place in the HoF.
His counting stats are lower than they might be because he was blocked at 3rd base by a big contract, so he didn't start until he was 27. His rate stats rank among the best of all-time. People who put so much more weight on counting stats are missing the boat.
He hit The Double that saved Seattle baseball.
He was truly one of the most feared hitters in the AL. Ask any AL pitcher who faced him.
He played a fine 3rd base until he tore his hamstring, and lost a lot of mobility. He then turned into the best DH in baseball history. They named the DH award after him, for pete's sake.
Really, the question becomes, "Should a DH get in?" Because if one should, at all, then Edgar should. If closers and relievers and AL pitchers go in, the DH should go in, and Edgar exemplifies the DH.
Wow, this article is a complete waste of internet space. Why not talk about guys who do belong and actually have a shot - like Andre Dawson, Jack Morris, Bert Blyleven, Lee Smith and newcomer Barry Larkin. Why talk about Edgar Martinez? He's not even borderline. 2200 career hits?
I personally think he deserves to be in the hall of fame.........being a Yankee fan, I hated him each and every time he came up to bat againist the Yankees. He owned us.
I think it's due to the fact that most people who possess HoF consideration don't yet value the DH position, but it is long overdue. The Phillies took two at home because Matsui's bat wasn't in the lineup, that's how the DH changes the game. Edgar wasn't a bad third baseman, they just preferred another player and utilized Edgar for his most valuable tool: hitting.
And while we're at it, yes, Jeter is a terrible shortstop, and that subject has been covered more times than hash browns at the Waffle House. He simply has the luxury of playing on a high profile team, and hence gets the media highlight. This isn't about Jeter though, it's about Edgar, and since i'm sure most would agree that Helton is an incredible hitter, that is exactly what Edgar's career numbers would emulate, if not higher, were he able to play for a longer stretch (no thanks to a career shortening hamstring tear).
I'd vote Helton in, right now even. Edgar was Todd before Todd.
EDGAR BELONGS IN THE HALL OF FAME, IF WE'RE PUTTING PITCHERS, MANAGERS, OWNERS, AND BROADCASTERS, IN THE HALL THEN THE DH HAS THE SAME RIGHT.
Edgar was and is probably one of the best right handed hitters to ever play the game. This guy was dangerous every time he came to the plate. For you to say that he was not dominate just because of some numbers, that are great by the way, shows me that you have no clue who belongs in the HOF. And by the way, you say that all voters take this seriously, then why did one voter leave Ricky Henderson off of his ballot. He said it was a mistake, but how do you make that mistake when he is one of 2 guys that may get in that year. If you don't vote for Martinez you should lose your vote.